Curse

Morphy · May 31, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

If you (=Anet) have by now still not noticed that not Shattering Assault or Escape were the main problems in the R/A builds, take a look at the Coward Pressure and Assault Assassin that people are using nowadays. Jagged Strike and Fox Fangs simply promote spam too much and there is no reason to keep these functions for PvP. The kind of builds that feature these skills will keep coming back until you nerf the source.

The fact that this skill can be countered is irrelevant. What matters is that it provides gameplay that is inferior to that of a Warrior, meaning it's broken.
Because these skills are broken, one can't suffice with a simple change such as a number-nerf or even removing the unblockable from Fox Fangs. A complete rework is in order and for that, the Assassin needs a proper balanced role, which it currently lacks. As long as that isn't fixed, there is no reason to keep these skills alive as they will always lead to dumb builds such as those I described above.

Gift3d · May 31, 2010, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

The solution? Guardian.

Fixed that statement up for ya, champ. Sins right now are weak, and easy as all hell to counter. Hope you get better at the game soon. Cheers.

Morphy · May 31, 2010, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

Fixed that statement up for ya, champ. Sins right now are weak, and easy as all hell to counter. Hope you get better at the game soon. Cheers.

I'm not talking about overpoweredness. Broken is broken and anything that is as mindless as these skills is in fact broken.

Masmar · May 31, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Overpowered or underpowered things are broken. You contradict yourself.

Morphy · May 31, 2010, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masmar

Overpowered or underpowered things are broken. You contradict yourself.

A broken skill or mechanic is one that can't be balanced by any such thing as increasing cost, recharge, activation or decreasing numbers on the skill itself such as effect duration. In short, a broken skill can't be number-balanced. There is a major difference between a skill that's "just" overpowered and one that's broken: the overpowered skill merely needs a numbernerf whereas the broken skill needs a new function. So, no. I'm not contradicting myself.

Luminarus · May 31, 2010, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

Fixed that statement up for ya, champ. Sins right now are weak, and easy as all hell to counter. Hope you get better at the game soon. Cheers.

Fox Fangs is unblockable. Jagged is a quick cast attack with 1 recharge. Lets assume you have guardian up, the law of odds of a 50% block suggests that youll get through after 2 seconds. Fox fangs guaranteed to get through. Then either any dual attack which may or may not be blocked. Lets also remember that guardian has a 4 second recharge, where as the sins combo has a 3 second recharge. So run up to a target start chain, change targets restart chain gogo.

They also then can have a perma ims (Rush) and coward makes a great snare for kiters. If the monk decides to kite, coward him run up start chain. Youll probably get out your dual before guardian sets in.

Thats similar to the people who used to say that broken stuff wasnt op because you could D-shot it, or land a diversion on it. Its still broken, its just not uncounterable.

HigherMinion · May 31, 2010, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Just remove the unblockable function in PvP and split it for PvE. It does no harm there.

Gift3d · May 31, 2010, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

I'm not talking about overpoweredness. Broken is broken and anything that is as mindless as these skills is in fact broken.

It's the Assassin. The class itself is mindless. I still don't see what you're trying to get at, here...

Del · May 31, 2010, 03:34 PM // 15:34

..Or just get rid of the fast activation so it can't be spammed nearly as hard.

Morphy · May 31, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

It's the Assassin. The class itself is mindless. I still don't see what you're trying to get at, here...

Even if the Assassin had a proper role, these skills would be mindless. Seeing that Assassins don't have a role, it's hard to determine what to change them to. Reworking them is therefore not a realistic option. Since these skills will always lead to bad play in their current form, they should be nuked until a role is made up for Assassins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

..Or just get rid of the fast activation so it can't be spammed nearly as hard.

That's the same as nuking it.

HigherMinion · May 31, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Spamming skills and pressuring opponents isn't considered bad play. Not being able to defend yourself against them is bad play.

Morphy · May 31, 2010, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Spamming skills isn't considered bad play.

Orly? Since when? Last time I checked, skills that promoted spamming were considered bad.

HigherMinion · May 31, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Orly? Since when? Last time I checked, skills that promoted spamming were considered bad.

If they're spamming and Failing, then it's bad. If they're spamming and getting a good outcome, it's not.

Think of it like this: A popular Stoning elementalist build; you go Ebon Hawk-Stoning-Ash Blast on the phys then cover Blind with Weakness again.

If you just spammed it constantly on the one foe without tabbing or targeting properly, it's ineffective. If you weaken a foe but then they get cleaned before your Stoning hits them, it's ineffective.

It's all down to the execution.

Del · May 31, 2010, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Spamming skills and pressuring opponents isn't considered bad play. Not being able to defend yourself against them is bad play.

Trooooolllinnnnnnggg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

If they're spamming and Failing, then it's bad. If they're spamming and getting a good outcome, it's not.

Think of it like this: A popular Stoning elementalist build; you go Ebon Hawk-Stoning-Ash Blast on the phys then cover Blind with Weakness again.

If you just spammed it constantly on the one foe without tabbing or targeting properly, it's ineffective. If you weaken a foe but then they get cleaned before your Stoning hits them, it's ineffective.

It's all down to the execution.

just because there is some sort of skill to effect ratio, how ever low it is, does not make the skills in question balanced or skillful to play.

Xenomortis · May 31, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Spamming skills and pressuring opponents isn't considered bad play. Not being able to defend yourself against them is bad play.

Anything that promotes and rewards mindless skill spam (basically what the Sin does) is fundamentally broken in an arena that is supposed to promote skill and tactical awareness.

Skyy High · May 31, 2010, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Woooo +30 damage on top of dagger autoattacking every 3 seconds! Big numbers here!

>_>

Any warrior should be hitting for more simply autoattacking and hitting some random attack skills. As long as autoattacking under an IAS has such high DPS for a warrior, you can't honestly complain about the existence of some (pretty bad) spamming builds for other professions. R/As were bad because they literally would never run out of energy, and they had effectively permanent 33% speed boost / block coupled with 33% IAS / block. This...no. Enough whining already.

Sirius Bsns · May 31, 2010, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Even if the Assassin had a proper role, these skills would be mindless. Seeing that Assassins don't have a role, it's hard to determine what to change them to. Reworking them is therefore not a realistic option. Since these skills will always lead to bad play in their current form, they should be nuked until a role is made up for Assassin.

Assassins have roles: to KILL SH*T and FAST! If they're killing you fast, it means you aren't using Guardian, Natural Stride, any Tactics stances, etc.. and expect to win how? There's also a plethora of anti-melee skills and spells to subdues them. USE THEM. Quit your whining.

Also, The 1/2 cast attacks have no huge raw damage, only bleeding degen, interruption, or a weak bonus. Again, no HUGE damage that can overwhelm and instakill you.

So, stop being bad at the game, please.

Arm · May 31, 2010, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I can't understand if the op is trying to say the skills are too hard to defend against or make playing assassin too easy? either way I'm thinking this thread is a joke.
Either get some blocking/blind skillz if it's killing you or switch the skillz for others if u don't like using them. This is going nowhere tho.
I vote /closed

miriforst · May 31, 2010, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Why should warriors always be better at melee?

Tenebrae · May 31, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Thats similar to the people who used to say that broken stuff wasnt op because you could D-shot it, or land a diversion on it. Its still broken, its just not uncounterable.

Wait , no one is saying its uncounterable . In fact there are bloody hell lots of melee counter ( lot more than caster counters ) and Jagged has no bonus dmg and only has .... bleeding ? woah. I think it should stay like that.
I agree thou that FF have fast recharge, good damage bonus , its unblockable and quick activation time. Its bloody broken . It is without a doubt the better ( if not a top 3 ) offhand that sins have. They should nerf one of its aspects ... or 2. I would take out its quick activation time and make recharge 6 sec.